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So the only two options you can imagine entail his detractors being irrational and emotional? You can not comprehend that anyone can have any valid complaint regarding him and his behavior at all?

Musk has accomplished some remarkable things, by having grand visions, ruthlessly executing on them, and being willing to repeatedly take on a massive amount of risk. If that had been all, I don’t think many people would be decrying him like this. It’s still easy to justify admiring those bits, if you’re so inclined

But he has also done a lot of things that make him unlikable and are harder to justify. He happily whips up massive amounts of hype, regardless of how likely his claims are to actually manifest (which is a large part of why the Tesla stock price is where it’s at). He sucks himself off at every possible turn, and takes dubious personal credit for a lot of things his companies achieve. He is vindictive and has exacted retribution on people with much less power than him (or pouts about it in an undignified fashion when the opponent is too powerful to crush, like the SEC). He has an easily bruised ego and lashes out in a very childish manner (remember the diver he called a pedo on Twitter). He enters into realms he has no expertise in and proclaims to the whole world that he has all the answers. He directly interferes in US and world politics by wielding his wealth and influence, sometimes with disastrous results (it doesn’t help that his political views usually are unsophisticated and immature, especially since he acts so certain of them). Etc, etc

Basically, he’s a dickhead that thinks he’s the best in the world at everything, and many of whose actions are detrimental to both individuals and the world at large. He doesn’t get a free pass for that just because he’s done some impressive things with his businesses


I still remember when people were laughing at the Tesla Model 3 as vapourware, as a scam, and proof that Musk was operating a ponzi scheme.

I still remember when Tesla was going to sell 20 million cars per year: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

Now, mysteriously, Tesla's new target is 20 million in total by 2035: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-...

That'll be fewer cars sold in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years.

And, given that Tesla is typically full of lies and hype, maybe they won't even achieve the new target.


I can’t control the stock price or the hype cycle. I’m only interested in past and present outcomes.

The present outcome is Tesla's sales are down for the second year in a row even though the global EV market is growing.

That result comes from a combination of competition, product flops, and self-inflicted brand damage. Swasticars aren't good for sales.


I guess Telsa will take care of itself then. No point hyping up its demise.

No point defending it either.

It never did become affordable.

It’s affordable relative to the definition of affordable given at the time. The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. That's $28,600 in 2016 dollars.

Backwards in time affordability to bend over backwards for a nazi saluter.

If you have a good argument, it will withstand the bare minimum of logical analysis, such as the factoring the consequences of inflation.

On a personal note I don’t find the CEO of most companies to be particularly interesting or important, and I include Tesla in that. Obsessing over personalities is the furthest from interesting as it gets for me.


So Tesla is not a bunch of liars after all? Just misunderstood?

I'm for startups that don't defraud their customers with a proven track record of lying.

Over promising is fraud. The hyperbole doesn’t help your argument at all.

What part is hyperbole?

Too many to quote but https://elonmusk.today hosts an intensive list of his lies.


Making predictions that don't come true is no fraud. Calling it fraud it hyperbole.

And Jesus some people have more time on their hands than they know what to do with making a site like that.

Imagine if they put their efforts into productive uses!


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Please don't post shallow attacks of other contributors like this on HN: It detracts from the quality of the forum. Maybe save the behavior for twitter or gab or truth or whatever is the new one these days.



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